1) Church polity is not adiaphora.

2) The Augsburg Confession (art. 28) assumes the episcopos. Structures of church polity should remain the same.

Bishops should remain teachers.

3) Office of ordained ministry to be the bishops.

4) Office of the ministry not to be confused with the priesthood of all believers. In time, with the radical elements of differing groups, Luther gave up on this (Priesthood of all believers) as unworkable. The Confessions do not recommend this either.
Office of ministry stands alone -- it is not dependent on Priesthood of all believers -- it does not come from below.

(Needless to say at questioning time he was challenged on Some of his statements about the episcopal system and the Priesthood of all believers -- rev. J. Cascione & others.)

5) If there is no coherence between the office of the Ministry and teaching and order in the church then there is the danger of Word & Sacrament being compromised. The buck has to stop somewhere
No checks & balances - Dist. Pres. Elected by people -- that is the American way.

6) All ecclesiastical structure of Lutheranism in America has cloned the position of church order as contained in the Augsburg Confessions. Democratic structure has led to the notion that the church is a human organization -- not the body of Christ. This structure is an impediment to one wanting to be a good bishop or president.

7) Lutheranism in America needs a polity that conforms to The Augsburg Confessions for the sake of fidelity to Word & Sacrament and the integrity of the church. Its easy to diagnose the problems, but there is no good remedy to the situation, barring a miracle from God. We also realize there will always be a faithful remnant but is that what God wants.
We should use the Augsburg Confession as a measuring rod as to whether the church is faithful.

His underlying thesis is that neither reform nor renewal without a proper structure can be a matter of indifference. It is not a matter of a case of perfect structure but which structure is best.
Let bishops be bishops and pastors be pastors ....

Again, questions such as Rev. Jack Cascione disagreed with him on the principle of the episcopacy system

1) Polity is the political organization of civil order among members of the state or community.

2) The Greek Scripture points to "head" as used in secular as well as ecclesiastical meetings as meaning not "source" but as "headquarters" or as "in control by the head" -- the head being over the body, ie, Christ is the head of the Church; man is the head of the woman.

Even animals follow a headship order: flocks of geese, schools of fish and herds of cattle. The admonishment to submit to each other means for each to submit to those who are above him. Dr. Jastram presents an argument for authority -- it is evident everywhere in the universe.

3) Ist Cor. 14ff denies/forbids women speaking in the assemblies. It includes a denial of equal participation rights in the public business of the assemblies; no speaking, debating, voting rights on the floor of the assemblies nor to pass judgment or the right to hold office.

4) At the beginning of recorded political thought in the west, one thing is clear: Absolute freedom or liberty is anarchy -- literally, a state of no gov't. Or control, a chaotic state -- no real freedom. Real freedom is where we can do "what we ought to do." If everyone is his own law, then there is no law -- if there is no law, there is no order; and if no order, there is no peace.

5) His presentation seemed to be a giving of the background of law & order and that in the church, order is currently giving way to disorder.

6) Generally, he didn't get to applications -- just principles, except for some comments concerning women in the congregational meetings.

2) Dr. Wenthe did an excellent job of presenting our Christian, historical, apostolic & Lutheran theology of Baptism. I hope his paper will be distributed and shared.

Dr. Wenthe feels that if we returned to our original Biblical, apostolic, and reformational understanding of what baptism is, it would go a long way toward solving many of our problems within our church and also within our nation. As a nation -- see first comments above -- as a church, reference such areas as reformed thinking. He quoted extensively from Lutheran fathers such as Martin Luther and the second Martin, that is, Chemnitz, as well as Hollaz.

Formerly all the presbyters were equally bishops with one of them chosen to lead and conduct the liturgy.

Proper Lutheran Polity is based on the pure marks of the church and promotes the same. The scripture mandates no particular form of church polity. Therefore, the unity of the church does not rest on a particular polity. The marks of the church are: 1. Word taught in its truth & purity and 2. The sacraments rightfully administered. Therefore, different polity or church hymnals should not affect the unity of the faith as we should bear such differences Between each other in love and Christian freedom. It is not necessary for the true unity of the Christian church that ceremonies instituted by men should be observed uniformally in all cases.

Lutheran churches of the Scandinavian countries have to a greater or lesser degree adhered to the episcopal form of government.

He stated it behooves us to try to learn what would benefit the kingdom of God the most or if the present arrangement can be improved upon -- but, it is important to remember that the passion for novelty must not be allowed to rule. The Romish church's polity did alright for a while, but there was always the danger of an oppresive hierarchy. It was the worst during the Lutheran Reformation.

He relates the story of an American congregation not having a pastor -- a church at Freistadt had a vacancy -- no confessional pastor was available. The Freistadt church asked for permission to elect a layman who had temporarily conducted services and administered the sacraments. Grabau gave a negative response. This letter of response was sent to various German Lutheran immigrants.

Grabau defended his response with his own Interpretation of article 14 of the Augsburg Confession. "Our church teaches that No should administer the sacraments or publicly teach unless He is regularly called." He stressed the word "regularly." This meant that a person should not only be called but also installed according to old Lutheran customs and practices. He further quoted the Apology and where professors stressed their wish to maintain church polity and the various ranks of church hierarchy. Grabau maintained that it not only was necessary to use the proper words of institution (the Sacraments) but the person could not be arbitrarily appointed to do this.

Dr. Schmeling points out that according to Scripture and the confessions that it is the Word that makes the sacrament; it is the word that imparts forgiveness & absolution; it is the Word that works faith. Thus there came to be a conflict between the Prussians and the Saxons on the Church and ministry as well as on church polity. Walther agreed church polity was negotiable, but not the church and ministry.

Dr. Schmeling contends that episcopacy is a valid form of church government -- but the thorn is the priesthood of all believers. All christians are priesthood, they are possessors of all heavenly treasures. They are possessors of the keys of the Kingdom of heaven which entails the right/responsibility to preach the gospel, administer the sacraments and forgive & not forgive sins--all things belong to the believers. But this authority of administering the keys publicly is different.

Dr. Schmeling went from personal Christian rights to public rights/responsibilities. Publicly it is conferred by God to the office of the ministery through the church.

Dr. Schmeling covered to some greater or lessor degree the following:
Church polity along with priesthood of all believers.
The office of the ministry.
Episcopal form of church government.
Historical background of above doctrines from the Apostolic age to the present and their effect on the modern churches, upcoming mergers, on the home and on modern liturgy and worship.
The effects of democracy and pantheism on the church today.
The influence of the feminism movement on the church.
The headship of men in the church & home -- women not to teach men or have authority over men (no Lutheran church constitution gave women the right to vote until this century) And there is a connection between women suffrage and ordination of women into the ministry and genderistic description of the Trinity on down.
Feministic reference to the Godhead,
How churches have been influenced by the world's cultures.

1) Bishop bears the burdens and sins of all; as such he is a Type of Christ.

2) In making intercession for the people the bishop stands in a line between David and all the prophets and the Gospel.

3) It is the bishop's aspect of overseeing good works and forgiveness of sins that most defines the bishop's office.

4) The bishop, then, in the place of God almighty indicates the power to prevent sins. (I don't know if I copied this correctly.)

5) The Old Testament passage from Ezekiel 34 which rebukes wayward and neglectful shepherds is the governing passage for the Christian ministry.

6) It was to the bishops, we are told, that it was said through the apostles, that "whoever hears you hears me and everyone who rejects you rejects me and him who sent me." Therefore, the bishop is to teach and admonish all; he is to rebuke those who are deserving of it, but unto repentance and not for destruction.

Several things influenced the change from an Episcopal to a democratic polity: 1) The influence of the democratic philosophy in America and 2) Their sad experience with their leader, Martin Stephan. These influenced the shift away from a hierarchical polity.

Pastor Brege is a past president of The Association of Confessional Lutherans. He has been associated with the free conferences from the beginning. He was the moderator of the first free conference, held in St.Louis in 1989.

Church polity should begin at the congregational level. There is a biblical model for church polity - marriage. The comparison of the relationship of husband and wife to Christ and His Church in Ephesians Chapter 5 describes this model. The husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the Head of the church (Eph 5:23)

The church is the Bride of Christ, the Bridegroom. Pastors are the groomsmen charged with the care for the Bride until the Bridegroom returns.

From the period of the Enlightenment in the late 18th century to the present, there has been a major shift in the authority of the church from the authority of Godis revelation to man's reason. This includes rejection of any authority given by God--authority of the church, of the ministry and of the Means of Grace. For some there is the feeling that the Means of Grace robs the individual of any credit associated with the giving or taking of the gift of Grace. Actually, as we Lutherans know and believe, the Means of Grace are God's gifts alone.

In much of the Protestant churches and to some extent in our LC-MS, as well, the crisis mentioned is either a denial of God's authority or a lack of faith in it. It has manifest itself in the preference of style over substance in the preaching office - a feature particularly recognized in the Church Growth Movement.

In much of the church today, emphasis on substance, that is Doctrine, is unpopular. Also, because of fear of authoritarianism and lack of trust in the leadership of the clergy, the philosophy of authority flowing from the congregation rather than from above has grown. This has resulted in a hire and fire mentality. We must change this attitude to return to the biblical polity of the church.

All authority is from above. The authority of the ministry is the authority of the Word of God. We must have leaders without being authoritarian. It is far more dangerous and serious for the shepherd to misunderstand and misuse God's gifts than for the sheep to do so. On the other hand, it is just as wrong for the laymen to treat the pastor as a hireling.

A quote from Martin Franzmann -

"Only the compassionate can bear the burden of authority without being either bent or twisted or broken by it." The only answer a good Pastor can have to the question, "By what authority-- is what he has been given to give--Our only authority is the Word of God.

After the Reformation, this office was returned to the original purpose that it was designed to have in the Early Church. The bishops in the early Lutheran Church were responsible for visitation of the congregations to aid them by insuring the purity of the Gospel and preaching.

In the beginning days of the Missouri Synod, the polity was put in place to insure the sovereignty of the local congregation and it's pastors from the Synod. The church was de-centralized. The early district presidents offices were designed to provide for visitation of every congregation to aid in it's purposed of preaching the Gospel.

In very recent years, the office of district president has been changed to increase its importance and give it more power over the congregations. From the early period of the LC-MS when the constitution gave the district presidents very limited authority, it now is interpreted by the CCM to have all powers not specifically reserved to the congregations. They now have authority to remove Pastors and congregations, arbitrarily, from the synod.

The council of presidents power has been further extended to include appointments to many synodical offices including the members of the CCM. Thus they control the organization which judges and interprets the synodical constitution. This control is further consolidated in the hands of three members of the council of presidents: the chairman, the vice chairman and the secretary. These three form the program committee. If any good district presidents oppose a particular matter, they can be shut out and overruled. Thus, the office of district presidents and the council of presidents cannot be expected to reform themselves. The reformation needed will have to be done by the synodical convention.

1) Why and in what sense polity is an adiaphora for Lutherans.
2) The real God given nature of church government.
3) American context
4) Particular applications